Arizona Immigration Bill

[GoRadio]

Give me your thoughts. Here's the basics

If someone is pulled over in Arizona the police have a right to ask for "proof of citizenship or w.e" and if they don't provide. then shit goes down.

The main "beef" with this is that it could lead to racial profiling. Which is by all means bad

But the conservatives will say that immigrants should get in the legal way and not be an illegal leech on us. (I know immigrants illegal or legal help with the economy no matter what and don't "steal" jobs)


Anyways, discuss?

[MaynardDL]

Well to be clear I don't believe anyone has to be pulled over or be doing anything suspect at all to be asked for papers, I think this is where the issue resides. If someone is pulled over for doing something they shouldn't they already ask for ID and can determine then that they may be illegal. I remember once at a court date there was a mexican guy who had been in jail for 120 days from a fender bender hit and run. He was illegal and deported but I couldn't believe how long he had been in jail before they shipped him out. Im indifferent about the bill itself mainly because I don't live in the area but I did visit Tempe in Jan and there are certaintly a great deal of mexicans and I couldn't imagine if police were asking all of them for papers while actual crimes were being committed. I think it needs time to play out, perhaps it turns out that its not a big deal if they merely ask for papers with someone who is suspect of doing something illegal besides just looking like they are there illegally. However if we start to see more mexicans begin to move out of AZ because of this the state could regret this bill big time with the economic impact it could make if they serverly lost a lot citizens legal or not.

On a side note, I have no problem with latino decent in the public eye speaking up and boycotting events in AZ because of this but I think its ridiculous when they protest outside the Staples center because Phil Jackson says he really has no issue or opinion on it.

[GoRadio]

It has to be reasonable suspicion. One of these cases would be if someone was pulled over and couldn't show their Drivers License...

and Arizona was upset that they had one of the higher crime rates? (notably the kidnapping rate) --- I don't know about trade offs but obviously in economics the more workers you have the higher your production possibility.

I personally believe we should either open up our policies or actually enforce our current ones. And I'm not for a police state.

[Gforcebond]

My main problem with the bill is that they have the right to just go up to you ask for your ID or papers or w/e. I will say this that this bill will actually make the economy better (for Arizona) not worse b/c all those illegals are getting payed under the table are taking other American jobs which in my opionon isn't right. I have no problems with someone coming from another country but get a citizenship and do it right. I just don't like the idea of some cop asking me for my ID. Unless you get pulled over while driving or under suspicion of comitting a crime of some kind they shouldn't be able to just go up to you and ask for your ID. I'll give an example. About a couple weeks ago i had my cousin and my friend over. It was late and we wanted to get someting to eat. So we go by the Arby's and they were closed so we ran across the street to see if the Pepe's was open and sooner than we can blink an eye we had five squad cars surrounding us asking for our ID. Now right away I was an asshole about it the whole time. All we did was run across the street. That's it. Is that a crime? I gues so in Woodridge, IL. The point i'm trying to get at that's where this bill is going to lead in the future is that a cop can just go up to you and ask for your ID for no reason. Which leads to all kinds of civil rights violations.

[Flowzn]

My main problem with the bill is that they have the right to just go up to you ask for your ID or papers or w/e.

It is already the law that if a police officer asks you for ID, you have to show it. They don't need any reason more than they want to know who you are.

The law only applies to situations where the cop has detained or arrested someone. It does not state that they can walk around asking for papers, but I'm betting you could argue through other laws that they can. What this bill really does is force cops to actually do their job. They are now REQUIRED to enforce immigration laws and report people to ICE. Before local police would just let illegals go who were either first time offenders or were not convicted of a violent crime.

As far as racial profiling, fuck that nonsense. I like cherries and I like steak, but if someone brings me a steak with a cherry on it, I'm going to question what its doing there.

[Gforcebond]

It is already the law that if a police officer asks you for ID, you have to show it.

That's not true at all. What if i don't have my ID on me and left it at my house and i went for a walk? Am i required to have my ID on me at all times. Certainly not. Yeah if they want to run a backround check i can give them my name but it's certainly not required I have my ID on me and as far as i'm concerned what law are you referring to that says you have to show a cop your ID if he asks for it. If i just robbed a store and i'm a suspect. Yes, but if i didn't do anything wrong a cop can't just go up to you and ask for your ID that's just not the case. Obvisosily it depends on what state you live in lawas vary state to state. You make a good point that when you say "I'm betting you could argue through other laws that they can" but i could easily say the same in my defense or for someone else and argue through other laws that a cop doesn't have the right to just ask for someone's ID for no reason.

[Flowzn]

It is a state to state law but a lot of states have a stop and identify law that requires citizens to show identification if asked by an officer who has reasonable suspicion that you may or have committed a crime. Adding the reasonable suspicion shit at the end is just for PR so it doesn't sound so bad. If a cop asks, u dont comply, he arrests you....the court will favor with the cop 100% of the time.

There was actually a supreme court case about this in 1968. Terry v. Ohio found that it is not unconstitutional for an officer to demand ID. More recently Hiibel v. Sixth challenged the law in Nevada and again was shot down. Think there is even a youtube video floating around showing the arrest.

Just looked it up and as of now 24 states have this law, mine included.


Found the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dFRrFvuGsc

More Info:

Assuming you live in Chicago so this is the actual law.

"(725 ILCS 5/107‑14) (from Ch. 38, par. 107‑14)
Sec. 107‑14. Temporary questioning without arrest.
A peace officer, after having identified himself as a peace officer, may stop any person in a public place for a reasonable period of time when the officer reasonably infers from the circumstances that the person is committing, is about to commit or has committed an offense as defined in Section 102‑‑15 of this Code, and may demand the name and address of the person and an explanation of his actions. Such detention and temporary questioning will be conducted in the vicinity of where the person was stopped.
(Source: Laws 1968, p. 218.)"

Fun fact:

(725 ILCS 5/107‑3) (from Ch. 38, par. 107‑3)
Sec. 107‑3. Arrest by private person.
Any person may arrest another when he has reasonable grounds to believe that an offense other than an ordinance violation is being committed.
(Source: Laws 1963, p. 2836.)

[Gforcebond]

Those supreme court cases are pretty interesting. Were you a law student by chance?

[Flowzn]

Those supreme court cases are pretty interesting. Were you a law student by chance?

No i just happen to of written a paper on the topic of immigration last semester.